Comments on: Wind, water and sun are all we need http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need Global warming and the future of New Zealand Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:41:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc By: Chris http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7967 Chris Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:28:04 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7967 I gather that Greenpeace's numbers don't really add up. I gather that Greenpeace’s numbers don’t really add up.

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]]> By: Bryan Walker http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7964 Bryan Walker Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:51:50 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7964 <a href = "http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/climate/solutions/renewable-energy#con" rel="nofollow"> Greenpeace </a> thinks the UK can do it, even without the sun. Greenpeace thinks the UK can do it, even without the sun.

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]]> By: Chris http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7958 Chris Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:42:28 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7958 People in the UK always fall about in horror when you suggest running purely on renewable energy: fair enough, they probably aren't well-placed to be self-sufficient in that regard. But there's no reason they couldn't import electricity from (say) the south of Spain. Most developed nations already import huge chunks of their energy via tankers or pipelines. Heaven forbid that equatorial nations might end up doing well out of this deal, of course.... People in the UK always fall about in horror when you suggest running purely on renewable energy: fair enough, they probably aren’t well-placed to be self-sufficient in that regard. But there’s no reason they couldn’t import electricity from (say) the south of Spain. Most developed nations already import huge chunks of their energy via tankers or pipelines.

Heaven forbid that equatorial nations might end up doing well out of this deal, of course….

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]]> By: Le Chat Noir http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7866 Le Chat Noir Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:58:54 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7866 Andy Revkin <a href="http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/19/smil-on-hummers-hondas-meat-heat/" rel="nofollow">interviewed</a> Vaclav Smil at the October <a href="http://www.q2cfestival.com/schedule" rel="nofollow">Quantum to Cosmos</a> festival. Smil is a polymath and he covers a lot of ground in the 60 minutes. He likes PV but points out that the intermittency of solar and wind are problematic in high latitude temperate climates (he lives in Winnipeg where he is a Distinguished Professor at the University of Manitoba). He explains why carbon capture and storage is not viable at the scale required, sees a pandemic as a greater short term threat than climate change and explains why he does not believe in making predictions. His short term solution to buy time is to reduce meat consumption (particularly grain fed beef) to 10kg per person per annum in the US and Canada and to improve vehicle fuel efficiency from 22 mpg to 48 mpg by getting everyone into a Honda. He readily concedes that this will not happen voluntarily and will most likely be the result of a further economic crisis. The interview is worth watching and almost everyone will find something of interest and something to <a href="http://deepclimate.org/2009/10/19/vaclav-smil-no-global-warming-in-past-ten-year/" rel="nofollow">disagree</a> with. I have only skimmed the Jacobson paper and while it does suggest that intermittency can be reduced by intelligent use of the grid I didn't see any attempt to map renewable supply and demand geographically and I would have thought this was a requirement before the case for renewables was finalised. For example <a href="http://www.applet-magic.com/insolation.htm" rel="nofollow">insolation</a> varies widely depending on latitude and season. The US DOE's <a href="http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/ieo/world.html" rel="nofollow">International Energy Outlook 2009</a> published in May 2009 forecasts renewables as growing from 19% of world electricity generation in 2006 to 21% in 2030 so they don’t concur with Jacobson and as Gareth pointed out on Twitter, Barry Brook is busy dismantling the renewables case in favour of nukes over <a href="http://bravenewclimate.com/category/tcase-series/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Andy Revkin interviewed Vaclav Smil at the October Quantum to Cosmos festival. Smil is a polymath and he covers a lot of ground in the 60 minutes. He likes PV but points out that the intermittency of solar and wind are problematic in high latitude temperate climates (he lives in Winnipeg where he is a Distinguished Professor at the University of Manitoba). He explains why carbon capture and storage is not viable at the scale required, sees a pandemic as a greater short term threat than climate change and explains why he does not believe in making predictions. His short term solution to buy time is to reduce meat consumption (particularly grain fed beef) to 10kg per person per annum in the US and Canada and to improve vehicle fuel efficiency from 22 mpg to 48 mpg by getting everyone into a Honda. He readily concedes that this will not happen voluntarily and will most likely be the result of a further economic crisis. The interview is worth watching and almost everyone will find something of interest and something to disagree with.

I have only skimmed the Jacobson paper and while it does suggest that intermittency can be reduced by intelligent use of the grid I didn’t see any attempt to map renewable supply and demand geographically and I would have thought this was a requirement before the case for renewables was finalised. For example insolation varies widely depending on latitude and season. The US DOE’s International Energy Outlook 2009 published in May 2009 forecasts renewables as growing from 19% of world electricity generation in 2006 to 21% in 2030 so they don’t concur with Jacobson and as Gareth pointed out on Twitter, Barry Brook is busy dismantling the renewables case in favour of nukes over here.

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]]> By: scaddenp http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7848 scaddenp Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:00:11 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7848 I have the book on my desk. While Britain and Europe had some challenges, worldwide renewables is possibles. But you need nuclear, solar or both. Non-solar renewables wont do it. I have the book on my desk. While Britain and Europe had some challenges, worldwide renewables is possibles. But you need nuclear, solar or both. Non-solar renewables wont do it.

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]]> By: Bryan Walker http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7847 Bryan Walker Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:54:47 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7847 Thanks for the correction Frank. God knows what 3030 will bring. 2030 is quite scary enough. I've only looked at bits of MacKay - he's one of my as yet unfulfilled good intentions. The aggressive pursuit of efficiency measures such as Lester Brown <a href = "http://hot-topic.co.nz/plan-b-not-from-outer-space/" rel="nofollow"> details </a>, and the electrification of devices which currently depend on combustion look as if between them they can produce sufficient demand reduction to allow a complete reliance on renewable sources. In the long run they surely can, but it's the shorter term that matters at this stage. I hadn't seen the savings from electrification quantified as Jacobson and Delucchi have done, and was cheered to see how high they estimate them to be within a short period. Thanks for the correction Frank. God knows what 3030 will bring. 2030 is quite scary enough. I’ve only looked at bits of MacKay – he’s one of my as yet unfulfilled good intentions. The aggressive pursuit of efficiency measures such as Lester Brown details , and the electrification of devices which currently depend on combustion look as if between them they can produce sufficient demand reduction to allow a complete reliance on renewable sources. In the long run they surely can, but it’s the shorter term that matters at this stage. I hadn’t seen the savings from electrification quantified as Jacobson and Delucchi have done, and was cheered to see how high they estimate them to be within a short period.

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]]> By: diessoli http://hot-topic.co.nz/wind-water-and-sun-are-all-we-need/comment-page-1/#comment-7842 diessoli Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:38:40 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3340#comment-7842 Hi Bryan, Have you read "Sustainable energy - Without the hot air" by David Mac Kay" http://www.withouthotair.com/ ? I don't remember the figures, but his conclusion (after a similar analysis - albeit limited to Britain) is more or less that there is really no way around drastically reducing our energy consumption to be able to transit to renewable energy source in a realistic time-frame. BTW. you probably meant 2030, not 3030. Cheers, Frank Hi Bryan,

Have you read “Sustainable energy – Without the hot air” by David Mac Kay” http://www.withouthotair.com/ ?
I don’t remember the figures, but his conclusion (after a similar analysis – albeit limited to Britain) is more or less that there is really no way around drastically reducing our energy consumption to be able to transit to renewable energy source in a realistic time-frame.

BTW. you probably meant 2030, not 3030.

Cheers,
Frank

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