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	<title>Comments on: Stairway from Heaven</title>
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	<description>Global warming and the future of New Zealand</description>
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		<title>By: Popgun for hire: A$20,000 â€” Hot Topic</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-9517</link>
		<dc:creator>Popgun for hire: A$20,000 â€” Hot Topic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 09:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-9517</guid>
		<description>[...] Science and Public Policy Institute blog, Monckton&#8217;s personal digital fiefdom. Aussie sceptic Ian Plimer will accompany Monckton on his walkabout, which begins in Sydney on Jan 26th. Monckton also [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Science and Public Policy Institute blog, Monckton&#8217;s personal digital fiefdom. Aussie sceptic Ian Plimer will accompany Monckton on his walkabout, which begins in Sydney on Jan 26th. Monckton also [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gareth</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-7944</link>
		<dc:creator>Gareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 02:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-7944</guid>
		<description>R2, you are reliable, at least. Read the linked reviews. You will find that they actually bend over backwards to be fair to Plimer -- read Barry Brooke&#039;s, at the very least, to see how a close colleague approached the review. The sad fact is that Plimer mangled the science, and it&#039;s his peers pointing that out -- not the media.

&lt;blockquote&gt;How ones feelings on a theory should be left-wing or right-wing is beyond me. This is another tactic to belittle the debate.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It&#039;s not the scientists doing the politicisation, it&#039;s the lobbyists, special interests and parts of the libertarian right (see Climate Cover Up). The &quot;debate&quot; is not about the science (otherwise Plimer would have no need to so badly misrepresent it), it&#039;s about what to do. That&#039;s quite properly the realm of politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>R2, you are reliable, at least. Read the linked reviews. You will find that they actually bend over backwards to be fair to Plimer &#8212; read Barry Brooke&#8217;s, at the very least, to see how a close colleague approached the review. The sad fact is that Plimer mangled the science, and it&#8217;s his peers pointing that out &#8212; not the media.</p>
<blockquote><p>How ones feelings on a theory should be left-wing or right-wing is beyond me. This is another tactic to belittle the debate.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not the scientists doing the politicisation, it&#8217;s the lobbyists, special interests and parts of the libertarian right (see Climate Cover Up). The &#8220;debate&#8221; is not about the science (otherwise Plimer would have no need to so badly misrepresent it), it&#8217;s about what to do. That&#8217;s quite properly the realm of politics.</p>
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		<title>By: CTG</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-7943</link>
		<dc:creator>CTG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-7943</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œIt is not â€œmerelyâ€ atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrongâ€ â€“ Its not true that all â€˜atmosphericâ€™ scientists agree on climate change&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s not what the original quote is saying. The reviewer is taking issue with Plimer&#039;s notion that it is the climatologists who are involved in some sort of hoax or conspiracy. The reviewer is pointing out that there would have to be thousands of scientists from many different disciplines involved in the conspiracy if it existed.

Which is more likely, that thousands of scientists are part of a global conspiracy that has somehow eluded detection for nearly 30 years, or that majority is right and the handful of contrarian scientist really are wrong after all?

Of course, we know that you would have us believe in the conspiracy, but that&#039;s because there are squirrels living in your brain, R2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>â€œIt is not â€œmerelyâ€ atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrongâ€ â€“ Its not true that all â€˜atmosphericâ€™ scientists agree on climate change</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s not what the original quote is saying. The reviewer is taking issue with Plimer&#8217;s notion that it is the climatologists who are involved in some sort of hoax or conspiracy. The reviewer is pointing out that there would have to be thousands of scientists from many different disciplines involved in the conspiracy if it existed.</p>
<p>Which is more likely, that thousands of scientists are part of a global conspiracy that has somehow eluded detection for nearly 30 years, or that majority is right and the handful of contrarian scientist really are wrong after all?</p>
<p>Of course, we know that you would have us believe in the conspiracy, but that&#8217;s because there are squirrels living in your brain, R2.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Andrews</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-7942</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-7942</guid>
		<description>Tim Lambert today has another story on Ian Plimer: turns out he &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/10/plimer_the_plagiarist.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;plagiarised some of the material in &quot;Heaven and Earth&quot;&lt;/a&gt; (and did so in such a way that completely changed the intention of the source material).

R2D2, you ask for criticism of what is actually said in the book...  there&#039;s plenty of substantive rebuttal of the assertions made in the book.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/plimer2a0.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ian Enting&#039;s document&lt;/a&gt;, for starters.  There&#039;s plenty more around.

One of the most revealing points made about H+E, I think (though it&#039;s irrelevant to the climate change aspect) is that made by Michael Ashley, demonstrating just how jaw-droppingly ignorant Plimer can be:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Plimer probably didn&#039;t expect an astronomer to review his book. I couldn&#039;t help noticing on page120 an almost word-for-word reproduction of the abstract from a well-known loony paper entitled &quot;The Sun is a plasma diffuser that sorts atoms by mass&quot;. This paper argues that the sun isn&#039;t composed of 98 per cent hydrogen and helium, as astronomers have confirmed through a century of observation and theory, but is instead similar in composition to a meteorite.

It is hard to understate the depth of scientific ignorance that the inclusion of this information demonstrates. It is comparable to a biologist claiming that plants obtain energy from magnetism rather than photosynthesis. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim Lambert today has another story on Ian Plimer: turns out he <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/10/plimer_the_plagiarist.php" rel="nofollow">plagiarised some of the material in &#8220;Heaven and Earth&#8221;</a> (and did so in such a way that completely changed the intention of the source material).</p>
<p>R2D2, you ask for criticism of what is actually said in the book&#8230;  there&#8217;s plenty of substantive rebuttal of the assertions made in the book.  See <a href="http://bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/plimer2a0.pdf" rel="nofollow">Ian Enting&#8217;s document</a>, for starters.  There&#8217;s plenty more around.</p>
<p>One of the most revealing points made about H+E, I think (though it&#8217;s irrelevant to the climate change aspect) is that made by Michael Ashley, demonstrating just how jaw-droppingly ignorant Plimer can be:</p>
<blockquote><p>Plimer probably didn&#8217;t expect an astronomer to review his book. I couldn&#8217;t help noticing on page120 an almost word-for-word reproduction of the abstract from a well-known loony paper entitled &#8220;The Sun is a plasma diffuser that sorts atoms by mass&#8221;. This paper argues that the sun isn&#8217;t composed of 98 per cent hydrogen and helium, as astronomers have confirmed through a century of observation and theory, but is instead similar in composition to a meteorite.</p>
<p>It is hard to understate the depth of scientific ignorance that the inclusion of this information demonstrates. It is comparable to a biologist claiming that plants obtain energy from magnetism rather than photosynthesis. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-7941</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-7941</guid>
		<description>I requested a review copy of this book - and got sent Air Con instead! Strange lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I requested a review copy of this book &#8211; and got sent Air Con instead! Strange lot.</p>
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		<title>By: RW</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-7940</link>
		<dc:creator>RW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:28:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-7940</guid>
		<description>An excellent way of confirming your ignorance - supporting the rubbish propounded by Plimer. You have no credibility at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent way of confirming your ignorance &#8211; supporting the rubbish propounded by Plimer. You have no credibility at all.</p>
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		<title>By: R2D2</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/stairway-from-heaven/#comment-7939</link>
		<dc:creator>R2D2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=3386#comment-7939</guid>
		<description>Thanks Gareth, those quotes provide a useful insight to the bias of the Australian media, and to the remorseless nature of the attack one is likely to receive if they challenge the CO2 orthodox. 

&quot;It is not â€œmerelyâ€ atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrong&quot; - Its not true that all &#039;atmospheric&#039; scientists agree on climate change

&quot;Ianâ€™s stated view .. whole range of specialist disciplines have fallen prey to delusional self interest and become nothing more than unthinking ideologues.&quot; - Nice, rather than critique the premise, simply portray it as lunacy. This quote is an unfair paraphrase.

&quot;If this had been written by an honours student, I would have failed it&quot; - enough said

&quot;it should be classified as science fiction in any library&quot; - along the lines of &quot;what debate???&quot;. As sad as this is I am willing to bet some posters on this blog would actually agree.

&quot;It is easy to see why this book has attracted attention, particularly from right-wing commentators who have long believed that man-made climate change is a conspiracy theory.&quot; - And the politicising of AGW by the believers continues. How ones feelings on a theory should be left-wing or right-wing is beyond me. This is another tactic to belittle the debate.

Can you provide any criticism of what is actually said in the book? Or only summerise the disgusting nature of what currently qualifies as journalism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Gareth, those quotes provide a useful insight to the bias of the Australian media, and to the remorseless nature of the attack one is likely to receive if they challenge the CO2 orthodox. </p>
<p>&#8220;It is not â€œmerelyâ€ atmospheric scientists that would have to be wrong&#8221; &#8211; Its not true that all &#8216;atmospheric&#8217; scientists agree on climate change</p>
<p>&#8220;Ianâ€™s stated view .. whole range of specialist disciplines have fallen prey to delusional self interest and become nothing more than unthinking ideologues.&#8221; &#8211; Nice, rather than critique the premise, simply portray it as lunacy. This quote is an unfair paraphrase.</p>
<p>&#8220;If this had been written by an honours student, I would have failed it&#8221; &#8211; enough said</p>
<p>&#8220;it should be classified as science fiction in any library&#8221; &#8211; along the lines of &#8220;what debate???&#8221;. As sad as this is I am willing to bet some posters on this blog would actually agree.</p>
<p>&#8220;It is easy to see why this book has attracted attention, particularly from right-wing commentators who have long believed that man-made climate change is a conspiracy theory.&#8221; &#8211; And the politicising of AGW by the believers continues. How ones feelings on a theory should be left-wing or right-wing is beyond me. This is another tactic to belittle the debate.</p>
<p>Can you provide any criticism of what is actually said in the book? Or only summerise the disgusting nature of what currently qualifies as journalism?</p>
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