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	<title>Comments on: Once upon a time there was an&#160;ocean</title>
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	<description>Global warming and the future of New Zealand</description>
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		<title>By: tortoise</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2139</link>
		<dc:creator>tortoise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2139</guid>
		<description>Two weeks after Malcom&#039;s comment above, the melt seems to be proceeding, indeed faster than it was at this time in 2007. Probably another couple of weeks at least until minimum. It may not surpass 2007, but then again it might. At any rate, as Maslowski said, it doesn&#039;t really matter...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two weeks after Malcom&#8217;s comment above, the melt seems to be proceeding, indeed faster than it was at this time in 2007. Probably another couple of weeks at least until minimum. It may not surpass 2007, but then again it might. At any rate, as Maslowski said, it doesn&#8217;t really matter&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: CobblyWorlds</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2053</link>
		<dc:creator>CobblyWorlds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2053</guid>
		<description>Malcolm,

Bear in mind that the anomaly is the difference from average. Even without what&#039;s going on now you&#039;ll have odd times when there are dips/peaks from average because just as no 2 years are identical, no year would follow the average.

As for what&#039;s going to happen, I give up. My latest prediction has been shown wrong, the gap between this year and last year&#039;s areas is now dropping below half what I said would be the likely difference at minima. Previous minima have been between 27 Aug and 15 Sept, that&#039;s 2 to 4 weeks to go.

I&#039;m tempted to go do something completely different until 1 September.

If I can just drag myself away. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Malcolm,</p>
<p>Bear in mind that the anomaly is the difference from average. Even without what&#8217;s going on now you&#8217;ll have odd times when there are dips/peaks from average because just as no 2 years are identical, no year would follow the average.</p>
<p>As for what&#8217;s going to happen, I give up. My latest prediction has been shown wrong, the gap between this year and last year&#8217;s areas is now dropping below half what I said would be the likely difference at minima. Previous minima have been between 27 Aug and 15 Sept, that&#8217;s 2 to 4 weeks to go.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m tempted to go do something completely different until 1 September.</p>
<p>If I can just drag myself away. <img src='http://hot-topic.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: malcolm</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2052</link>
		<dc:creator>malcolm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 12:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2052</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff.  Being a simple barefoot empiricist, I like to look at the data, particularly here:

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea.ice.anomaly.timeseries.jpg

Past history shows many cases of sudden &#039;melt&#039; and sudden recovery, presumably due to wind, measurement, or god knows what.  At this stage, we could be in just such a similar temporary dip (which actually occur at all times of the year in the historical record), or it could be a more  sustained low plateau for a few weeks. Or even the presage of a further melt.

If it&#039;s just brief dip, I think the fat lady will have been satisfied by the mini-bar in the limo.  If it&#039;s a sustained low plateau, or further substantial melt, I&#039;ll be inclined to think that she&#039;s gone to back to her hotel for the Surf n Turf, followed by a Bombe Alaska.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff.  Being a simple barefoot empiricist, I like to look at the data, particularly here:</p>
<p><a href="http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea.ice.anomaly.timeseries.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/sea.ice.anomaly.timeseries.jpg</a></p>
<p>Past history shows many cases of sudden &#8216;melt&#8217; and sudden recovery, presumably due to wind, measurement, or god knows what.  At this stage, we could be in just such a similar temporary dip (which actually occur at all times of the year in the historical record), or it could be a more  sustained low plateau for a few weeks. Or even the presage of a further melt.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s just brief dip, I think the fat lady will have been satisfied by the mini-bar in the limo.  If it&#8217;s a sustained low plateau, or further substantial melt, I&#8217;ll be inclined to think that she&#8217;s gone to back to her hotel for the Surf n Turf, followed by a Bombe Alaska.</p>
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		<title>By: gareth</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2046</link>
		<dc:creator>gareth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2046</guid>
		<description>Worth noting that Serreze&#039;s comments postdate the NSIDC Aug 1st assessment.

And I wouldn&#039;t be so quick to dismiss Maslowski&#039;s work. His prediction might be an outlier, but it sets a lower bound on plausible cases. And his case is nothing if not plausible (see CW&#039;s earlier link).

He has confirmed, however, that McKie&#039;s comments are not based on a new paper. He has one coming out later this year...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worth noting that Serreze&#8217;s comments postdate the NSIDC Aug 1st assessment.</p>
<p>And I wouldn&#8217;t be so quick to dismiss Maslowski&#8217;s work. His prediction might be an outlier, but it sets a lower bound on plausible cases. And his case is nothing if not plausible (see CW&#8217;s earlier link).</p>
<p>He has confirmed, however, that McKie&#8217;s comments are not based on a new paper. He has one coming out later this year&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: CobblyWorlds</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2047</link>
		<dc:creator>CobblyWorlds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:30:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2047</guid>
		<description>William,

Perhaps you could blog on it.

Quick google... Ahhh, &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2008/08/more_sea_ice.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I see you have&lt;/a&gt;! Heavy on incredulity, sparse on reasoning though... ;)

I&#039;ll reply over at Stoat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William,</p>
<p>Perhaps you could blog on it.</p>
<p>Quick google&#8230; Ahhh, <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/stoat/2008/08/more_sea_ice.php" rel="nofollow">I see you have</a>! Heavy on incredulity, sparse on reasoning though&#8230; <img src='http://hot-topic.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll reply over at Stoat.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2051</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2051</guid>
		<description>Oh come on. NSIDC has a rather more balanced approach: &lt;i&gt;The Arctic sea ice is now at the peak of the melt season. Although ice extent is below average, it seems less likely that extent will approach last yearâ€™s record low. The pace of summer decline is slower than last yearâ€™s record-shattering rate, and peak sunlight has passed with the summer solstice.  However, at least six weeks of melt are left in the season and much of the remaining ice is thin and vulnerable to rapid loss. A race has developed between the waning sunlight and the weakened ice. &lt;/i&gt;

The 2013 stuff is nonsense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh come on. NSIDC has a rather more balanced approach: <i>The Arctic sea ice is now at the peak of the melt season. Although ice extent is below average, it seems less likely that extent will approach last yearâ€™s record low. The pace of summer decline is slower than last yearâ€™s record-shattering rate, and peak sunlight has passed with the summer solstice.  However, at least six weeks of melt are left in the season and much of the remaining ice is thin and vulnerable to rapid loss. A race has developed between the waning sunlight and the weakened ice. </i></p>
<p>The 2013 stuff is nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: CobblyWorlds</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2048</link>
		<dc:creator>CobblyWorlds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2048</guid>
		<description>Wieslaw Maslowski US Naval Postgraduate School. pdf 5.36Mb &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ees.hokudai.ac.jp/coe21/dc2008/DC/report/Maslowski.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;b&gt;When will Summer Arctic Sea Ice Disappear?&lt;/b&gt; Sustainability Weeks 2008 â€“ Symposium on Drastic Change in the Earth System during Global Warming. Sapporo, Japan, 24 June 2008

&lt;blockquote&gt;Between 1997-2004... ice volume decreased by 40%, which is &gt;2x the rate of ice area decrease.

If this trend persists the Arctic Ocean will become ice-free by ~2013!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Next March&#039;s stats on perennial ice extent from Nghiem and any and all data re first-year ice thickness are now crucial.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;A linear increase in heat in the Arctic Ocean will result in a nonlinear, and accelerating, loss of sea ice.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt; Norbert Untersteiner, Professor Emeritus, University of Washington, July 2006</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wieslaw Maslowski US Naval Postgraduate School. pdf 5.36Mb <a href="http://www.ees.hokudai.ac.jp/coe21/dc2008/DC/report/Maslowski.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p><b>When will Summer Arctic Sea Ice Disappear?</b> Sustainability Weeks 2008 â€“ Symposium on Drastic Change in the Earth System during Global Warming. Sapporo, Japan, 24 June 2008</p>
<blockquote><p>Between 1997-2004&#8230; ice volume decreased by 40%, which is &gt;2x the rate of ice area decrease.</p>
<p>If this trend persists the Arctic Ocean will become ice-free by ~2013!</p></blockquote>
<p>Next March&#8217;s stats on perennial ice extent from Nghiem and any and all data re first-year ice thickness are now crucial.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;A linear increase in heat in the Arctic Ocean will result in a nonlinear, and accelerating, loss of sea ice.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p> Norbert Untersteiner, Professor Emeritus, University of Washington, July 2006</p>
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		<title>By: CobblyWorlds</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2050</link>
		<dc:creator>CobblyWorlds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2050</guid>
		<description>Nope, I just can&#039;t think of anything to say.

I&#039;m going for a walk along Blackpool&#039;s promenade, in the autumnal wind and rain.

:(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, I just can&#8217;t think of anything to say.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going for a walk along Blackpool&#8217;s promenade, in the autumnal wind and rain.<br />
 <img src='http://hot-topic.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://hot-topic.co.nz/once-upon-a-time-there-was-an-ocean/#comment-2049</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=471#comment-2049</guid>
		<description>If nothing else, I should come here for all the hot new adaptations to &#039;the fat lady show&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If nothing else, I should come here for all the hot new adaptations to &#8216;the fat lady show&#8217;.</p>
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