Comments on: Juggling science and denial http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=juggling-science-and-denial Global warming and the future of New Zealand Sat, 11 Feb 2012 09:26:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: “Widespread climate-related impacts are occurring now and are expected to increase” — Hot Topic http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-5726 “Widespread climate-related impacts are occurring now and are expected to increase” — Hot Topic Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:24:01 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-5726 [...] is required to solemnly consider submissions from climate science deniers, a PM wants us to be ready in case the science deteriorates and the sceptics are right, and a leading climate scientist is [...] [...] is required to solemnly consider submissions from climate science deniers, a PM wants us to be ready in case the science deteriorates and the sceptics are right, and a leading climate scientist is [...]

]]> By: The Minister Speaks — Hot Topic http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-5618 The Minister Speaks — Hot Topic Thu, 28 May 2009 03:45:11 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-5618 [...] first reaction to his speech was relief.  There was no suggestion of the bob each way mentality John Key’s Investigate magazine interview in March displayed. And he was quite clear [...] [...] first reaction to his speech was relief.  There was no suggestion of the bob each way mentality John Key’s Investigate magazine interview in March displayed. And he was quite clear [...]

]]> By: An idiots* guide to what happens when the CO2 affects the WAIS at The Standard http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-5026 An idiots* guide to what happens when the CO2 affects the WAIS at The Standard Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:09:36 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-5026 [...] John Key and John Boscawen (ACT MP on the select committee on climate change) come to mind after reading [...] [...] John Key and John Boscawen (ACT MP on the select committee on climate change) come to mind after reading [...]

]]> By: They’re doing it, why aren’t we? at The Standard http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-5010 They’re doing it, why aren’t we? at The Standard Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:58:42 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-5010 [...] power stations, bad bulbs, an emissions trading scheme on ice and a PM who’s aching for the skeptics to be proved right. If the Maldives get it and believe they can make a difference, why don’t [...] [...] power stations, bad bulbs, an emissions trading scheme on ice and a PM who’s aching for the skeptics to be proved right. If the Maldives get it and believe they can make a difference, why don’t [...]

]]> By: Tangled up in blue (first reprise) — Hot Topic http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-4941 Tangled up in blue (first reprise) — Hot Topic Thu, 12 Mar 2009 08:07:53 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-4941 [...] on hold and yet being reintroduced at the same time, and prime minister John Key’s apparent lack of conviction about the severity of climate change. Commenting on the changes at MfE, environment minister Nick [...] [...] on hold and yet being reintroduced at the same time, and prime minister John Key’s apparent lack of conviction about the severity of climate change. Commenting on the changes at MfE, environment minister Nick [...]

]]> By: Ayrdale http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-4912 Ayrdale Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:43:26 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-4912 Fair enough too, thanks. Fair enough too, thanks.

]]> By: Bryan Walker http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-4911 Bryan Walker Fri, 06 Mar 2009 01:27:43 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-4911 Ayrdale, Stern is talking only of midterm targets, not of the level of reduction required by 2050. To me it would make sense to start soon - indeed it would have made sense to have started long before now - but it may be possible (just) to make a case for smaller reductions now provided they are matched by much larger reductions a little later later. The grimness of the science is not in the slightest bit altered by what politicians do or don't do about it. That is the point of my post. I don't think Key has grasped the seriousness of the science. And as Greg points out he may be on shaky ground when he suggests that other leaders share his stance. But even if they do that doesn't alter the science. Science is done by scientists, not politicians. They do policy, and god save us if they don't get it right. I think we've about exhausted the usefulness of this series of exchanges. You don't accept the science. I do. That's not a chasm likely to be bridged any time soon. I'd be happy to leave it at that. Ayrdale, Stern is talking only of midterm targets, not of the level of reduction required by 2050. To me it would make sense to start soon – indeed it would have made sense to have started long before now – but it may be possible (just) to make a case for smaller reductions now provided they are matched by much larger reductions a little later later. The grimness of the science is not in the slightest bit altered by what politicians do or don’t do about it. That is the point of my post. I don’t think Key has grasped the seriousness of the science. And as Greg points out he may be on shaky ground when he suggests that other leaders share his stance. But even if they do that doesn’t alter the science. Science is done by scientists, not politicians. They do policy, and god save us if they don’t get it right.

I think we’ve about exhausted the usefulness of this series of exchanges. You don’t accept the science. I do. That’s not a chasm likely to be bridged any time soon. I’d be happy to leave it at that.

]]> By: Ayrdale http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-4910 Ayrdale Fri, 06 Mar 2009 00:54:30 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-4910 Brian, if as you say "the human future looks grim" it can't be too bad...after all, the Obama administration made the comment ... "... that pushing for overly ambitious midterm targets is not required by the science..." In other words the science can't be too grim... if it was really grim, then everything would be "politically feasible" wouldn't it ? And "the warnings from science" that you mention are exactly what Stern is basing his comments on isn't he ? Or are you talking about different warnings ? Brian, if as you say “the human future looks grim” it can’t be too bad…after all, the Obama administration made the comment …

“… that pushing for overly ambitious midterm targets is not required by the science…”

In other words the science can’t be too grim… if it was really grim, then everything would be “politically feasible” wouldn’t it ?

And “the warnings from science” that you mention are exactly what Stern is basing his comments on isn’t he ? Or are you talking about different warnings ?

]]> By: Bryan Walker http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-4909 Bryan Walker Thu, 05 Mar 2009 23:02:29 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-4909 Ayrdale, Pielke doesn't indicate what he thinks is politically possible and feasible. Of course if it proves not possible politically to address climate change adequately, and that is the verdict from Copenhagen, then the human future looks grim. If Pielke is keen on common sense I would hope this prospect would appal him as much as it does me. But who is to know what he means by common sense. There is a lot of debate to go on before and at Copenhagen and I doubt we should assume that Stern has already staked out a position from which the US will not move. I don't see much point in speculating at this stage about how the discussions will go. I just hope they will involve full recognition of the warnings from science. Ayrdale, Pielke doesn’t indicate what he thinks is politically possible and feasible. Of course if it proves not possible politically to address climate change adequately, and that is the verdict from Copenhagen, then the human future looks grim. If Pielke is keen on common sense I would hope this prospect would appal him as much as it does me. But who is to know what he means by common sense.

There is a lot of debate to go on before and at Copenhagen and I doubt we should assume that Stern has already staked out a position from which the US will not move. I don’t see much point in speculating at this stage about how the discussions will go. I just hope they will involve full recognition of the warnings from science.

]]> By: greg http://hot-topic.co.nz/juggling-science-and-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-4908 greg Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:58:11 +0000 http://hot-topic.co.nz/?p=1417#comment-4908 Is it just me or do these quotes seem to contradict what Key said in the house? <b>Brown:</b> "Prime Minister Gordon Brown urged the United States Wednesday to harness historic global goodwill to pull the world out of its economic slump and lead the charge against climate change." http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090304/wl_uk_afp/usbritaineconomybankingbrown <b>Obama:</b> "President-elect Barack Obama sent a video message to a summit meeting on global warming organized by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California, implying that despite the continuing economic turmoil, reductions in greenhouse gas emissions will remain a central component of Mr. Obama’s energy, environmental and economic policies." http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/obama-climate-message-amid-economic-woes/ <b>Key:</b> "The leaders I have talked to, I can assure the member, are so focused on the recession that they are not particularly focused on climate change at the moment.” Perhaps Key is only talking about Rudd? Is it just me or do these quotes seem to contradict what Key said in the house?

Brown:
“Prime Minister Gordon Brown urged the United States Wednesday to harness historic global goodwill to pull the world out of its economic slump and lead the charge against climate change.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090304/wl_uk_afp/usbritaineconomybankingbrown

Obama:
“President-elect Barack Obama sent a video message to a summit meeting on global warming organized by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of California, implying that despite the continuing economic turmoil, reductions in greenhouse gas emissions will remain a central component of Mr. Obama’s energy, environmental and economic policies.”
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/obama-climate-message-amid-economic-woes/

Key:
“The leaders I have talked to, I can assure the member, are so focused on the recession that they are not particularly focused on climate change at the moment.”

Perhaps Key is only talking about Rudd?

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